parasiteevefandomcom-20200215-history
Talk:GOLEM
About the origins... I've always got the impression that the GOLEM units were totally synthetic (i.e. organisms entirely designed and built in a lab, engineered, etc.) and older than the NMCs, possibly reaching into the Cold War era. I don't think they have any connection to the NMCs whatsoever, and were simply placed in the Shelter to act as a defense force. Possibly, they were a black project during the arms race? An untraceable type of soldier that used advanced equipment and could be easily replaced by making new 'batches' and trained by programming? I'm speculating, of course, but to further my point, the legendary Golem was never human -- it was simply made in human form, an aspect that, in relation to the GOLEM units, would be beneficial for a soldier project (using weapons, etc.). It's the poetry of the name that makes me think they are not simply altered humans, but designed organisms that do not exist in nature. Also, No.9 posseses a personality and a position of authority suggesting he's older than any other GOLEM unit on-site, and, moreover, that he's trusted to make decisions. Building on my earlier points, I think this points to him being overall not human, but certainly too, he's far from a mindless automaton. It's more than likely in my mind that No.9 (by sheer virtue of his numbered designation) was the ninth ever GOLEM to be produced, and in his time he has come to learn and grow ever more aware of the world, not unlike a child growing into maturity. This would make him an ideal choice to oversee the Shelter's research and development, as he would posses the power of a GOLEM's biology, with the creativity and adaptibility of a highly trained combatant. He's experienced in many ways, even socially, far more than any other GOLEM encountered, even the Bishops (the Special Operations model), and that says to me that he's seen his fair share of combat, but also seen his fair share of normal life, if only on TV or something. Moreover, he operates alone competently, whereas all other GOLEM units tend to behave as though it's their first day being alive, being rigid, predictable, and rather slow to react, as if their reflexes were based on basic instructions. Like a program. All speculatory, but I cannot recall reading in-game anything about the GOLEM units being altered humans. They are referred to as 'cyborgs' by the Marines. And nothing more. A researcher too, (Chandra?) writes something like 'No.9 is a synthetic soldier'. That piece of text is located on the second level of the Shelter, in the room with the animal cages. It details one of the researchers deaths at the hands of Bowman. Just some thoughts. 12:25, October 25, 2011 (UTC) Orca* right, nice thoughts, but the golems are dead people walking, thats all to it, cyborgs are humans with mech parts added on, its easyier to see them takeing the dead and adding parts to them, as for No.9, everything suggests he was the first and went a bit odd after the operation, hell backs up the point, if No.9 is what happend if you did it to a liveing being, then you sure as hell wouldnt want more, so dead humans would far be easyier to control, also its just a basic game, no need to delve so far into it. Captian of the shinra attack force *** Delving makes things interesting and keeps things fresh. :) Also, I take it you agree with me that they are not apart of the ANMC experiments, and instead are some other form of biological engineering? Cyborg means 'cybernetic organism' -- it doesn't distinguish between human or animal or anything. It's simply a blending of machine and flesh. Now, you've mentioned that the GOLEMs are reanimated corpses... And that rings a bell, I believe Aya's observations in-game make reference to that, when she sees the 'large corpses' through the window, hanging in the freezer, but there's still nothing to suggest that the GOLEMs were ever human. Nothing points to No.9 being the first GOLEM. As i said, the sheer fact he's called No.9 points to him being the'' ninth''-ever GOLEM unit, but possibly the first success. Also, despite his behaviour, No.9 obviously has alot of authority, enough so that he's privy to in-depth knowledge of the Shelter, ANMC research, and has operational control of the GOLEM units. You don't put someone in charge unless you can trust them to get the job done. And being promoted means you've proven yourself capable, meaning No.9 has experience and intelligence enough to carry out missions. He's far from a dead man walking, although he does have need of a life support system. Overall, there's little, if anything, that I can see that would suggest that the GOLEMs are altered humans or altered animals (like, oh say, gorillas, which they share physical similarities to). The game itself mentions that No.9 is a synthetic, which says, to me, that the GOLEMs are a manufactured organism altogether, and are not built upon any one template found in nature. Like a chimera, it would seem far more likely that the GOLEM units are pieced together to form a strong and capable lifeform, with technological restraints put in place to control them (hence the life support system , No.9 mentions). 06:21, October 26, 2011 (UTC) Orca* well your little open and friendly so lets see where our talk goes, as for not part of the ANMC line i would say yes, they where not part of it, maybe some kind of close net project on the same lines but not ANMC, other wise a little girl would of pulled them out and started useing them but that is a diffrent topic, as for none human, you do have something to support you but what am thinking is, created life?, perhaps your idea about the chimera may be right and what we are seeing is there first attempts at trying to crack into the next stage of humanity, but instead they only mange to create a human like drone, not the best steps but since they are controlled through means, in the case of No.9 a life support system, they where simple used as foot soldiers or guards in the case of the shelter, but with a few in game things in the armoury it seems they had ideas about useing them as perhaps shock troops, mean i would, the fact that they could single handly take on a NMC or ANMC unarmed proves they have great power, also a few where equiped with weapons and stealth feilds and mindless drone like loyalty, where they simple marched towards incomeing fire with out thinking or careing, showed they would of made great shock troops and if they where chimeras then no one realy could complian as well since well, what law states man cant create life?, i would simple put that there GOLEM project was there dues ex moment and there only true break through. As for what they where made from i would think along the lines of gorrilas as well, in the breeding pen they had the cages and where already doing mind altering tests on monkeys, so it would make sense they started a project that had them altering the body. As for No.9, i belive he was one of a kind but he does refrence the others GOLEMS as friends, so i think he was the first one to be given his own mind set as he seems to have a human like triats and personality, while quite mad, as for being in charge, he was just a field agent that got put in charge since...well who else was there?, bowman went mad and injected god knows what into him self, head of the animal research was killed off before the events and the rest of the staff where killed in the revolt by the ANMC. (as for the term revolt for the ANMC thats a diffrent topic, which am pretty sure if we keep this up we will start a talk page there.) Captian of the shinra attack force /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ I'm not here to be an asshole, if that's what you're getting at when you refer to my being 'a little open and friendly'. I just see some oddities that aren't explained/touched upon to my satisfaction in the game. You'll notice I have not brought forth my thoughts into being by editing the GOLEM or No. 9 articles, despite the perceived inaccuracies. For example, I was not aware that No. 9 paid a scientist to retain his mind, and I do not believe that to be true (I think it's fanfiction). But, I'm not here to cause drama. I'm here as a fan who overthinks stuff. You dig? ^_^ That's my point, really -- a manufactured creature, capable of being taught complexities like combat/military applications, easily replaced, maintained, and trained. Moreover, each unit would, to my reckoning, essentially be 'born' an adult, never knowing anything like childhood. Neural implants would provide the unit with the basics of function; movement, coordination, weapons handling, etc., via downloading through a computer. Basically, it'd be a machine within a living body. A true cybernetic organism, through and through. Made on an assembly line. A living weapon. Grown in maybe a few months using accelerated techniques (stem cells?), and trained in a day or even hours through data downloading. Training is all in the mind, after all, every action starts there. This line of thought would explain why a so-called specops model like the BISHOP was easily defeated, despite being stronger, faster, and technologically superior. It followed a pattern of attack, only a few set moves, and yet still couldn't defeat Aya. The reason is simple -- it was on its first legs. It had a basic program in its head, and knew how to execute tactics, but it hadn't yet had enough time to develop wisdom enough to function efficiently. Stronger, faster, but overall infantile and initially limited to its programming. Think Terminator. Essentially, I'm thinking that the GOLEMs were read-only until they became self-aware of the world around them. They had basic knowledges to fall back on, and could do stuff like work a computer and fight pretty much from the get-go. But response time and tactics were very lacking. Once they gained more experience, actual experience, it would seem that they'd then be able to fulfill their potential as a KNIGHT or whatever. To be honest, seeing them take out ANMCs left and right, moving in a squad of three or more, yet repeatedly being defeated by only one person suggests that, while the GOLEM units had superiority in their gear and body, they didn't have anything to fall back on like experience. It furthers my point, really. No.9 was different, and I think he's a perfect example of what happens when a GOLEM ages and gains experience in life, developing a personality. This aspect would not be aberrant, rather it would be apart of the GOLEM design -- providing the unit with a mature form from the start, and with baseline training downloaded into their mind, but als with an ability to learn. From there, they would become whoever it is they'd become. And here's the kicker -- there's NO RISK whatsoever, becasue, as No.9 alluded, there'd be restraining technology to control the GOLEM unit. So, even if it wanted to rebel, decided it didn't like being a soldier anymore, it had no means of escape. Without life support, it would die. A sythentic creature. Not human, but capable of equalling and surpassing a human combatant. If it's killed, nobody cares -- legally, politically, etc. Regarding where they came from, as I said, I don't believe that the GOLEM units have a genetic basis in relation to any animal in existence. In other words, I don't believe they were a form of any intentionally mutated ape or whatever. Rather, I think their entire genetic code was designed and manufactured using reference points from humans, and combining those references with other features from other animals. The test animals in the Shelter were there as apart of the NMC trials, in my opinion. I do not believe that the GOLEM units were developed and produced there at all. I think that around the time that NeoArk was being built, the GOLEM freezer was put in-place as a security measure, and loaded with already-made GOLEM units. I never read anything in the game about mind-alterations done to the monkeys. Body alterations were explicit, however. On the topic of No.9's authority, I feel that he was nobody's subordinate inside the Shelter. Kyle took orders from him. 11:32, October 27, 2011 (UTC) Orca* /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Hope this isn't seen as a talk/thread "necro" but wanted to throw in my two cents. Warning, speculation with real life biology and references included... A bit of a tin foil hat reply. I'm kind of surprised you haven't mentioned the 2nd Neoteny Plan. If you want to refresh your knowledge of it, here's a link to a YT vid of a playthrough http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p84NoxVOiPs. At 6:24 Aya asks what the 2nd Neoteny Plan is. The answer is the following: "The 2NP harnesses the evolutionary potential of neo-mitochondria to revitalize the human race. Stage 1: Obtain sample neo-mitochondria with latent power equal to or greater than that responsible for the N.Y. incident. Stage 2: Administer sample to a test subject. Redesign subject's genetic profile to explore evolutionary possibilities and multiple ANMC breeds. Stage 3: Release humanity's true potential and preserve its vitality in the coming century through planned evolution." Then Aya for the current results at 7:26: "Neo-mitochondria sample obtained Jan., 1998. Stage 1: complete. Stage 2: ANMC creation successful. Some problems during testing. Problems resulted from test subject insurrection. Will attempt repression using clones from the sample... Further access denied." As aforementioned, Doctor Bowman is this test subject. Now I'm not sure where exactly, but I believe it was mentioned the GOLEMs were created under this same plan. In neoteny as mentioned here, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny, the physiological (or somatic) development of an animal or organism is slowed or delayed. Neoteny also has juvenilization as a synonym. Now, what if with neoteny in the case of the PE series, juvenilization doesn't reference to the state of the human body but to the state of mankind? (which sounds more logical imho) Stage 3 mentions the release of humanity's true potential. Do the scientists working on this project believe that perhaps true potential slumbers in an earlier state of human evolution? Perhaps a humanoid more alike to our genetic ancestors. However Delbert D. Thiessen claims that Homo Sapiens are in fact more neotenized than Homo Erectus, which was more neotenized than its predecessor. Taking both the claim of aforementioned scientist and in-game explanations in account, neoteny must mean a further evolutional breakthrough, as is mentioned by several logs and No. 9 himself. Then again there were tests done on primates in the labs. Is this because the genetics of chimps and humans is very alike or because their behavior, in the very basic form (and some higher functions), is similar? But there are also lab rats with i.e. organs transplanted on them. We also hear Aya describe several creatures in fetal stages or beyond those in the lab zones. But to not digress too far from the subject, I believe you are almost spot on with what you have said right here: "Regarding where they came from, as I said, I don't believe that the GOLEM units have a genetic basis in relation to any animal in existence. In other words, I don't believe they were a form of any intentionally mutated ape or whatever. Rather, I think their entire genetic code was designed and manufactured using reference points from humans, and combining those references with other features from other animals. The test animals in the Shelter were there as apart of the NMC trials, in my opinion. I do not believe that the GOLEM units were developed and produced there at all. I think that around the time that NeoArk was being built, the GOLEM freezer was put in-place as a security measure, and loaded with already-made GOLEM units." I think that, taking the 2nd Neoteny Plan in account, GOLEMs are in fact either human, primate or a combination of those by altering the genetic mapping, then grown within the cilindrical test 'tubes' seen in the lab and the lab next to Eve's room. Because of them having grown rapidly, as a result of the genetic alteration or by means of other stimuli and having never learned to walk by experience we can explain their hunched-over gait. In the cinematic where we see that the GOLEMs are activated there is a fluid injected into their neck. This is the only thing they need to start walking, to know where they have to go to and do whatever it is they are designed to do... which I believe is, indeed, safeguarding the shelter. In the dreams/nightmares Aya has, she sees Eve being closed in by several golems on the walkway in the basement levels. Another shows how she escapes the golem cutting through the door leading from the sterilization room to the elevator and the gantry pod. Surely the GOLEMs must have been lead by the sinister No. 9. After all, she is needed for the master plan... So to recap, I think the GOLEMs are genetically altered humans/primates who have grown at a rapid pace to the size of an adult. They walk hunched over because of their inexperience with movement (as they follow artifical intelligence rules, presumably written by the scientists or perhaps the military but this is a different subject). They guard the shelter, its scientists and the test subjects as well the Neo Ark facility (originally, before No. 9 pulled them from hibernation). However, one could say that the GOLEMs could be human corpses, as Aya presumes. Left in the freezer to make sure they do not decay and then the fluid injected in them neotenizes their bodies, restores several brain functions, but not nearly all of them. Deus Ex Machina indeed... TuariJD 12:53, April 11, 2012 (UTC) Fairly sure it was mentioned, or heavily implied, that the GOLEMs were monkeys with cybernetic implants and genetic enhancements. I do definitely recall that a researcher referred to them as "artificial soldiers". Aestune (talk) 19:02, February 7, 2013 (UTC) Interesting theory. One of the annoying things about PE2 is that many things were left unexplained. Like Kyle being the SWAT officer who planted the bomb and was working with No.9 in Akropolis tower. Also Kyle and No.9 were clearly there to stop the ANMCs, just like Aya and Rupert. And Neo Ark being run by the government itself. 04:28, November 28, 2016 (UTC)